Flames and feedback

[sua_lay]

Oookay....

Commented an archive somewhere around here and was told I'm a flamer. Thought I'd take a moment to contemplate feedback and flaming and stuff. Don't expect any coherency here, it's almost two am here.

I think that in fanfic and fandoms, the free speech between fans is the most important thing. If someone wants to discuss about a fic or an archive online and I have something to say, I'll never lie just to smooth anyone's feathers. [okay, if I know that the person asking for comments about their stupid fic is a suicidal drug addict, I may just not say anything...]

Anyway, let's see examples here!

1. A LiveJournal comment:

- I did not like that fic you recced. I found it ghastly.
- That archive sucks. I don't like when they say a fic is 200 words instead of the size said in bytes.
- Squee. OMGs that was good. Yay.

Those are opinions. My opinions I state. If someone recs me something or asks about an archive, I will say what I think about the stuff.

Yeah. I find most of the automatic archives annoying due to various things (coding, formatting, the fact that the fics could be better) and most of the non-automatic archives are full of crap as well. Sue me. Or actually, you can't sue me for stating my opinion.

Please, dear archive keeper/author/whoever. Don't jump into conclusions and kick my butt for saying what I believe.

2. A LiveJournal post.

- Hey, read this fic!
- Hey, don't read this fic!
- Does someone wanna read my fic?

Yeah. It hurts when you stumble onto a journal saying your stuff isn't good. Could it be because the journal keeper is a twat? Could it be because your fic is crap? Could it be a small combination of both facts?

I have no idea.

My likes: Long fics with good charactarization, preferably first time slash fics with a happy ending, my OTPs (Snarry, puppies, Frodo/Sam, Legolas/Gimli, Jack/Daniel, Gil/Nick and so on), no porny sex scenes even if the fic is NC-17 (unless it's a PWP), no wake up gay, no smarm or unnecessary crying. Actually finding the fic and not stumbling onto 5 'password protected' areas.

My dislikes: This would depend on the pairing and the series, but I usually hate smarmy weepy characters who abandon all reason for love. Yeah. Those kinds of fics. White text on green background. Short fics posted in parts in LJs or put into archives in parts (yeah, we're still at this...)

I will give my opinions according to my likes, dislikes and the current mood. Still not a flame.

3. Feedback.

- I liked your story 'Happily shagging puppies' and would love to read more about their adventures. Hopefully you'll update your WIP soon.
- I liked your story 'Happily shagging puppies'. Thanks for sharing it with us.
- Your story 'Happily shagging puppies' was a great example of a humor fic done well. Kudos!
- I read your story 'Happily shagging puppies' and liked it very much. The pace of the story was excellent, and I liked your charactarization of Sirius. I would have to say that the fic would have been even better if you'd had the time to find a good beta. As a non native English speaker, I typo a lot and would be lost without my beta. :D Might I also say that sometimes less sex is better (pointing at the seventeen explicit scenes in your fic)? Just my opinion, but thought you wouldn't mind me saying it. :D

Why the hell is everything out of 'OMGs!! This was teh best EVAH!' a flame these days? Has anyone read book reviews in the papers? Sometimes the critics tear someone's book apart. It's still not an attack on the author.

This may be a new concept to people, but listen up. If you publish a fic, in the net, in an open journal, in an archive or even in a zine, it's out there, and anyone reading it can say whatever they like about the fic. It may not be what you want to hear, but sometimes con crit can be a good thing.

Wish they told that to people who love Mary Sues and live at ff. net.

Witnessed a flame war about six months ago, when someone left a not really praising fb on someone's guestbook, and the author totally ridiculed the reader and then her fans went insane and threatened to kick the reader's ass. In my opinion, the whole thing sucked. If you only want praise, say so.

If you have a low self esteem, publish on a pen name and have someone else screen through your fb so you'll only get praises, you Anne Rice you.

The thing is, I hardly ever send feedback these days. There are very few stories that are totally and absolutely brilliant, and if I find that there's something the author should be mindful of, I usually try to at least hint about it, in a gentle way.

4. Getting feedback.

I like it. I don't know any author who doesn't like fb. I like the fb saying the reader liked it, but I also like the ones where the reader says they liked it, but prefered the prequel, or that they didn't really think that someone's character was right.

Keeps me from writing a dozen similar silly fics.

There are plenty of people on my FL who have told me they don't like some of the stuff I've written. Hell, I don't like some of that stuff anymore. That doesn't mean I don't like those people. Actually, I may hold them in a great esteem simply because of their level headedness.

I have an email addy, a LJ and a guestbook on my site. They can all be used for fb. Good, bad, indifferent, constructive. I will appreciate all.

5. Flaming.

Don't do it. It's not nice.

But... What is a flame anyway? 'Your fic was a pile of crap and it should be burned and you should go to hell'. That would be a flame. 'Your fic was a pile of crap'. That would be an opinion. Not a very nice opinion of course, but an opinion anyway.



The thing is, I can say here that I think soap operas are fucking stupid. That's not a flame and if you wanna watch soaps, go ahead. I can criticize a movie or a book. Why can't I say critical things about a fic without being called a flamer?

is annoyed

Feel free to make any comments you like. Or leave not comments at all. Or whatever.

Will now go back to polishing da fic. If I ever actually finish it and post it anywhere, feel free to comment it honestly. Sure, I have spent over two fucking years writing it, and have annoyed half the people I know to death by babbling about Snape and Harry and stuff, but it doesn't mean the fic is perfect. Hell, it doesn't even mean it's good. It just means that I write fic. You can love it or hate it. Whatever you say will not diminsh the fact that it's been an important journey to me.

Yeah. Happy solstice everyone.

Comments

[snowgrouse.livejournal.com]

Grh, yes, "omg I kant spel so dont fleym me !eleven!"... any criticism that's justified (i.e. the critic explains *why* and *what* was crap) bloody well isn't a flame. Grahhh.

[sua-lay.livejournal.com]

Whoa! Let's not be hasty master Grouse! You should of course tell the moron that she's the best author ever and *squee* and ask if you can be her minion.

I'm so fucking tired of seeing fics like that....

[mace-m.livejournal.com]

Commented an archive somewhere around here and was told I'm a flamer.

Er, what?

Seriously, people need to learn to see the difference between a) "99% of Stargate fic is no good." and b) "99% of Stargate fic is horrid and written by cunts, who should be taken behind the barn and shot before they get the chance to write more fucked up fic." Because a) is an opinion and b) is a flame.

This tendency of writer's only wanting to get positive feedback is the reason I feedback any more. If you don't want to know what I really think about something, don't ask for my opinion! If someone doesn't like the pictures I do (or did), I can take hearing it. I know that all of them weren't that good, and when someone goes "OMG, all your stuff is sooo pretty!!" I lose all respect for them, because obviously they don't know what they are talking about. Besides, I never did the pics to be praised. I did them for myself, which I thought was the reason people write fan fiction, too, but based on how some people demand/whine/cry for feedback it would be hard to believe.

Ah, it's too early in the morning for such deep thoughts. I need coffee. Good morning, sweetie!

[mace-m.livejournal.com]

... the reason I don't feedback any more.

See, a beta would have caught that, and saved me the embarrassment. *g*

[sua-lay.livejournal.com]

LOL

Hey, I'm only a grammar nazi when we're talking about fic. You can typo as much as you want here. We all do it.

love your icon

[sua-lay.livejournal.com]

Morning, darling. it's almost time for me to go to bed

I wonder if time makes memories sweeter than the reality really was, but I seem to remember that once upon the time, fb comments that said 'OMG i praise you and teh fic 4EVAH!' were not held dear, they were kinda snickered at.

The new world order with BNFs and their minions is making me slightly nauseous, and the worst thing is that you can't say anything about it without hearing you're a flaming idiot. Or make a comment on your friend's LJ....

Eek, that's just me being evil and sarcastic again... Should stop before it gets outta hands...

[mace-m.livejournal.com]

I seem to recall that there was a day and age (back when the dinosaurs roamed the land and all) when constructive criticism didn't equal flaming and the feedbacker being the most evil bitch who ever lived, OMG!!½! I also seem to recall that in those days a long time ago, the good fic/bad fic ratio didn't use to be this depressing.

Maybe we're just demented and have forgotten how it really was? I hope not.

[sua-lay.livejournal.com]

If you're demented and live in your own la la land, please let me move in there as well.

hang on there, three more weeks! we can do this!

[tvillingar.livejournal.com]

*twirls you* Sort of :P

I think I may have to link this to my journal. There seems to have been some storm is at least two fandoms about fb/flaming/something in the past week or so and luckily, I've missed it! It really pays to be the fandom hermit sometimes.

[sua-lay.livejournal.com]

Gah, I wonder if I should become a total hermit as well...

Go ahead and link it if you want to.

And gee! I'll be such a great company today, after ranting and raving through the night and getting like 5 hours of sleep or something... Apologies in advance... [goes to bed]

[sookail.livejournal.com]

You do realize the whole thing is a complete WTF - why are they there anyway?

Otherwise, a v. interesting post, will add it to my memories, hope you don`t mind :)

Will now go back to polishing da fic.

*twitches*
The Estonian Fangirls Anonymous are so, so waiting...

[sua-lay.livejournal.com]

even archive keepers need to have some offtime reading people's journals I guess

Go ahead and save the rant. It was actually quite fun to scribble it...

And why the hell is it that every time I try to innocently polish my fic, I realize it needs this and that and I'll end up re writing huge passages?

*stabs the fic*

[valandhir]

You are right on most points in your rant. You are entitled to your opnion and you are entitled to tell it as loud as much as you want. And as you are a really good writer yourself - judging by your Highlander-stories - your opinion is something to be taken serious.
There is only one thing I might add. You can tell me "Your story is a pile of crap" all the much you like but there is one thing I expect to be added there "because..." I can only speak for myself, but if someone doesn't think my writing is good, I usually want to know why. it helps me improve. I think it's the same for others too.

[sua-lay.livejournal.com]

Oh, you're definitely right about constructive criticism! I don't mind if someone dislikes my story for the plot and stuff (because let's face it, even good authors write crap sometimes), but if the dislike is due to charactarization or gramar errors, I'd like to know so I can correct things or at least be mindful of them.

It's amazing how often you can't read all the mistakes and weirness in your own text. Beta readers are a good thing!

Of course if you feel like ranting at your own LJ, then you can just be all cranky about 'this crappy fic' you read. That's not con crit, that's just whining. :D

[valandhir]

Even if someone dislikes a plot, I usually am interessted to know why. Like "You know, I just can't believe that..." or something. OK. There are kinds of plot too, I usually don't read. (And you convinced me at one point with you Mac-turned-sheep story. I didn't like the idea in general, but in the end liked your way of pullingit.) I agree with you about characterisation (even if this is a tricky thing, there are so many takes and views on some characters). but what to me is a special problem are grammar errors. You are right: I don't see my own all the time. Usually I can say, I don't see the mistakes I make in english language. I don't have a beta reader (at least not for english) so I give it by best shot. Sometimes when I write I am struggling to find the correct english words for what's on my mind, then I try to read it later again, because it's due to contain mistakes, sometimes when the language just seems to flow from my mind, and I write english without thinking about it, I commit the mistake, and don't re-read as thoroughly, I have as much mistakes there. The thing I mean is: I don't mind if someone tells me. "you'd better written 'if he was to come back to...' instead of 'if he would come back'" because this helps me to see what I did wrong. If someone just writes, "your grammar sucks", I think "Yeah, teachers at Uni tell me the same" and shrug it off. Perhaps that's wrong and I should mind it. *laughs*

As for ranting on lj: It's somehow cowardly to rant about fanfic there (I usually only do rant there on eps). I think the author has the right to know what's written about him, and have the chance to reply to it. So you are right: it's whinning.

Sorry if my reply got a little bit out of hand.